Punching the Misconceptions of Sex Work in the Face with Paige Savage: Model, Content Creator, and Bada$$ Sex Worker

James Robilotta: 00:00:01

Welcome to diner talks with James. Slide into the booth and let's have conversations we never want to end with friends we never want to leave over food we probably shouldn't be.

James Robilotta: 00:00:23

What's going on my friends how are you? Welcome to another episode of diner talks with James. I'm James and super excited to be here with y'all kicking in my friends. We got a dope episode coming out. I know we talked to a lot of people about mental health. We talked to people about diversity, equity inclusion, we talked to people about their careers. We talked about legacy we talked about a lot of stuff and we're going to talk about a lot of that today, but from a completely different and exciting lens because my friend, Paige savage Savas, if you're nasty is how she told me to say it is the guest and I'm super pumped for you all to meet here in just a second Let me tell you about her page is a plus size model content creator, photographer, consultant, and sex worker based in Minneapolis, Minnesota pays join the adult industry a few years ago and soon after, said goodbye to that nine to five job in education. She loves what she's doing. Now, she thoroughly loves being a jack of all trades and her own boss, she wants you to know that she is a regular schmegle cooler human and a real down to Mars girl denote a quote, you're already appreciate her. Let's bring her out right now my friend Paige Savage.

Paige Savage: 00:01:50

You know, much just you know, getting nervous, but it's fine. We're gonna roll right with it.

James Robilotta: 00:01:59

It's so fun to hang out. You know, we haven't been able to connect. We have been friends for a number of years. And and now we live in the same city. And then the world is like, but I'm going to shut down so you actually can't be friends in real life still. So, but we were able to get together at least a couple of times before the world ended. And I'm excited that now that the mask mandates are lifting, I'm excited to get the kicker with you in person too, because we always have a ton of laughs How have you been my friend?

Unknown: 00:02:29

You know, I have been good to be I mean, given the pandemic, I've been really good and I can't complain. Um, I don't know the past year has had me really focusing on gratitude. It just being thankful for what I have. And yeah, so in the grand overarching scheme of the universe, I I'm in a good place. So

James Robilotta: 00:02:55

how about you it's a beautiful thing I am also in a good place I'm you know, in the middle of learning a lot we had a baby and I'm still learning every single day it's it's a humbling and beautiful experience. And I'm trying to wrestle with my counselor around my intense desire for control and how I don't have it anymore. So you gave it up my friend everything's fine everything's burning and yet it's fine. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. A page here's a question that I asked a lot of people who come through because you know what I'm diner talks with James and I fancy myself a good late night meal. And so I'm wondering you know, here in the in the Twin Cities here in the Twin Cities, we've got a few Okay, late night spots, right, you can go to Mickey's and get something greasy if you want. There's a couple other spots that are open late, but I'm wondering what is your late night food? Guilty pleasure? What's your move, lady?

Unknown: 00:03:57

Uh, to be honest, I don't have one anymore. Because I'm training for a bodybuilding show for 2021 and my trainers, like you're not about that life anymore, girl. So I mean, back back in the days before training, bt I don't know. I mean, doordash used to be real tight. I really liked red cow actually. Yeah, late night to me was like 1011 actually, um, and then I really

Paige Savage: 00:04:40

yeah

Unknown: 00:04:42

that's what getting old those and then i don't know i i don't know that was never really my there's never really my move. Oh, but Popeye's would be open late.

James Robilotta: 00:04:54

There you go.

Unknown: 00:04:55

Yeah, I would give me some Popeye's and Raising Canes would be open late and I'll take Raising Canes Over Popeye's any day,

James Robilotta: 00:05:01

wow, that's gonna start a fight that says he's over raising canes. Okay. So all right, let's write let's rank these chicken places because let's just get it all out. Because the only other chicken places I think we could list are. I mean, there's chick fil a right with oppression never tastes so good. And so so yeah, that's probably a KFC is up there. Zoe's is pointing back in 2016 Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, never makes sense. I respect your decision is actually at the top of the top of chicken places for you. Bojangles is also in there,

Unknown: 00:05:43

huh? Yeah, I would say it's Zach spees. Raising canes and Popeyes unless you're in New Orleans, or like Louisiana in general. And then Popeyes is first.

James Robilotta: 00:05:53

Sure. Okay, got it. Yeah. You got to stay on brand. That's a perfect time to bring up our first sponsor. Popeyes were almost as good as raising canes and not as close as expats. Thanks for sponsoring the show Popeye's. Bojangles is my time to serve. As soon as I went down south I got Bojangles and I was like, Where has this been my entire life? I learned about sweet tea. They got these Bo berry biscuits covered in all of this sweet delicious icing and I don't know it's just a good product. I love me a biscuit also so

Unknown: 00:06:34

now, though, the what a burger. honey butter chicken biscuits for breakfast. Those slap

James Robilotta: 00:06:40

strong. It's a strong product. Yes, it is for sure. I love talking to my friends who have traveled and Jade restaurants everywhere. No but real talk to Chili's in Colorado so much better than Chili's in North Carolina.

James Robilotta: 00:07:07

Love it. Now here's the thing. I don't know if you knew this page, but you were the first person I ever met from North Dakota. Oh, Jesus. I've never met anybody from North Dakota before. And so I was immediately fascinated because I want to know what was going on up there. And you said basically nothing. Which is what I assumed so I was also like, well, that's good to know. But when you tell people you are from North Dakota, what are the typical reactions you get?

Unknown: 00:07:40

Oh my gosh. Y'all have electricity? Isn't that part of Canada? My one of my favorites. There's black people up there. And they always got to say real, real quiet. Like, yeah, it's the worst question ever. Which is not it's a totally understandable question in my from my POV. Um, but besides that, I mean, it was mostly like, what was it like growing up there? So the funny questions are, they're always, you know, disarming and just I can't help but laugh because it makes me question. The US education systems, geography lessons. But as someone who used to teach geography, I fully get it. But uh, no, I mean, for the most part, people are bewildered. And you know, we have a quick conversation and I give them fun facts like the state of North Dakota has never voted for a democrat for president since john F. Kennedy. And keep it keep it moving.

James Robilotta: 00:08:48

collects on some facts now you got some good press your friends at home kids. And shout out to JFK. There's some conversations there but that's for another day. You Wait, hang on. There's no way a white man history had some problems. That's impossible.

James Robilotta: 00:09:16

It's not who you can marry. So again, the the idea of North Dakota reminds me of my first trip ever to South Dakota. I didn't go to North Dakota until 2019 was the first time I ever made it to North Dakota. It was my 46th state now and and so when I went to South Dakota one time was over Rapid City the first time I'd ever gone there. And it's always a Rapid City. I was out at brunch, like you do in Rapid City, big brunch town. And so I was sitting next to this person whenever I travel. I always try to sit at the bar or belly up to the counter because I'm an extrovert and I just don't want to sit alone. And, and sort of chopping up with some stranger next to me. And I said, Listen, you know, I got a couple of days to kill out here. Sure I'm going to check out Mount Rushmore off, we'll do the Black Hills, etc, etc. But I'm pretty close to North Dakota, should I drive up there and spend some time in North Dakota just to check the state off. And he turned his whole ass body towards me. And he said, Now Sunday, listen to me. There's nothing going on in North Dakota. Birds fly upside down in North Dakota, cuz there's nothing worth shitting on up there. And that is a direct quote from some old man in South Dakota.

Unknown: 00:10:40

You know, North Dakota is one of those places like, it's like your mom, like, I can talk shit about it. But you can't because you didn't live. So even though I'm from a state, you know, and I always say like, I'm half North Dakotan, because I also grew up in Virginia. I split my time between the two going up, but I will always claim no DAC. But yeah, I mean, I'm one of those people that I actually get, like, personally, we'll look at someone offended. And why are you Why are you talking about that? That's what So, I mean, don't get me wrong, there are a lot of things. There are a lot of things. But I will say this, it was a great place to grow up like definitely a little bit. Leave it to Beaver ask, in essence that like it was before, I feel like North Dakota for the longest was so insulated from a lot of the things that were happening outside, like the state and like in major cities. And so it was nothing to talk to strangers. I don't think like we have the stranger danger conversation until like sixth grade. Like you could be out until the street laughs came on or even longer. And you know, you'd be okay. And I mean, I don't know, I liked it. I liked it a lot, actually. But now reflecting like, as an adult, there's a lot of things that happened. And a lot of things that were said that stuck with me that through therapy you work through. You know, because like real talk, I was the only person of color in my class until maybe Middle School, early High School. Um, so there was just there was a lot happening. Um, and I was definitely the only kid in my neighborhood who was you know, darker than a paper towel. So, it just it was a lot growing up, but I had a good time. It's a weird, dynamic,

James Robilotta: 00:12:51

very weird dynamic, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, I grew up in a hometown. But I've been I've been quoted as saying that, you know, if you ever saw six black people walking together when I was growing up, you thought it was a movement. Now I'm gonna just because that's how white that's how white my hometown was. Right? Yeah. And you can't help where you grew up. Right. And you said you split your time in Virginia and North Dakota? Yeah, North Kona, a fairly white place. And, and so yeah, I How could those experiences not have shaped you? Was there a time when you were growing up that you became proud of your heritage? Was that something you were taught? Was that something that you or were you taught to hide it? Were you told to be proud of it? Were you taught like, like, what kind of conversations Did you have around the house around?

Unknown: 00:13:38

Um, it was a mixed bag. But I mean, there was no hiding it. No hiding it. My mom is white and half indigenous Ojibwe. The colonizer word for Ojibwe is Chippewa. But she was pretty white passing unless you know she tanned in the summer. Um, my stepdad was white German ancestry. So it was just very different at first, to be honest with you, I didn't even really realize that I was, I guess black and indigenous until probably I was like eight or nine. And I asked my mom, why I was darker than everybody. And I mean, that was a really heart breaking conversation for me, because in that moment, I also found out stepdad wasn't my real dad. My bio dad passed away before I was born. So, um, suffice to say it was a very, like, huge moment in my life. But um, for the most part, a lot of the conversations that I had with my mom and my stepdad were very much so the unfortunately people are going to treat you differently. Um, You're going to think certain things about you because of your skin color. You're gonna have to work twice as hard to have certain things. And my parents did the best they could, they really did. You know, no one gives someone a handbook when their kid is a totally different race than they are in it as you know, guidelines. But then like, I'd go to Virginia with my bio dad's family, and it was the, it would be the first time, you know, are the only times of the year that I was surrounded by people who look like me. And it was definitely a comforting thing. But at the same time, it was also so foreign to me. That, you know, there were moments where I would have cousins who were like, you're such an Oreo, because I didn't understand necessarily aspects of black culture, because I wasn't entrenched in it. So it and then I go home, go back home to North Dakota, and my parents would be totally cool. But like certain family members would be like, Oh, my god, she's been radicalized, as I got older. Yes. Like, she, like, Why is she calling out this this racial injustice that's happening here in the city? Everything's fine. And, you know, my parents understood why, but other members of my family just couldn't see it. So it was two very different worlds. And I had to learn to straddle the two. And I will say, I mean, this is a long winded answer. I will say this, though, it helped me in the future. Know how to see the middle between everybody. And to understand everybody's viewpoint, even if it's one, I don't agree. And it just taught me that. At the end of the day, people are going to be people. And all you can do is control yourself. And, I mean, I had a I had a pretty good childhood, pretty decent. There are some aspects of it that of course, I think every child has some traumatic stuff happened. But uh, overall, like, I think it set me up for success. So I'm not, like not too pissed about the things that happen.

James Robilotta: 00:17:21

Yeah. Yeah. That is, first of all, thank you for sharing for sharing your story, right. I mean, you and you and I grew up different. I don't know if you knew that. But But yeah, it is. It's powerful to hear your story. And it's also it's also telling how we're never blank enough for whatever population, especially and this is something especially that, that biracial, multiracial folks constantly have to battle, right, is that you're not blank enough for the blank people. You're not blank enough for the blank people. And and so you have to figure out like, Okay, well, who am I? And what matters to me? And how can I just live my truth? Yeah, well, that's so hard going through a period of time that tells you just fit in and survive, right, like high school, and Middle School, it's like, I just want to I don't want to be seen. I don't want to be heard. I just want to write like, I just, I just want to find my space. I want to get through this. And then you know, maybe in college, I can live live out loud. Now, right? Yeah, my high school, nobody came out in my high school because it wasn't a safe space to come out. And plenty of people came out afterwards right now. Um, so they they did did a place where they couldn't live their truth. And so I know, that example is different. But you know, that there's, there's some through lines there. And it's powerful to hear you share, you share about that. So thank you.

Unknown: 00:18:51

Yeah, and I mean, it's, I think, look, I am a realistic optimist. But I've come to the conclusion that as human beings, look, we are tribal beings. You know, we seek out people who look like us, it makes us feel more comfortable. And that's a survival mechanism. It's something we need to work on. Um, but, you know, it's, it's, I think, for biracial and multiracial people, it's going to continuously be a struggle. And, you know, like, even now, I'm almost 30 and I'm just now getting, you know, entrenched in my indigenous ancestry in history and, you know, working with people to revitalize that because, like, our language is endangered, you know, our languages is with our elders. And it's, it's such a difficult language to learn that, you know, once our elders are all gone, we don't know how many fluent speakers are going to be left. I think there's maybe like 2000, Ojibwe, like fluent speakers. Yeah, in the States, and I think and In Canada to, um, so, you know, being this age and now learning, you know, another part of who I am, but the the aspect that I keep going back to and people might sit here and say that I'm such a pessimist, but again, I just think it's being realistic. I think as we continue to see this diversification of our of our society, we're still going to find something to fire, right? Like I think about and within the black community, we often talk about dark skin versus light skin. Is that going to be a thing? Now the Caucasian population will be on the decline starting 2032? You know, by 2050? Is that going to be the thing? Are you too light? Are you too dark? What is it? Um, I? I don't I don't know. I just I hope we get past that. But realistically speaking, I'm like, I don't know if we got it in us. Yeah.

James Robilotta: 00:21:00

Because power I love it though. Cuz it's a real shit. Right? Like, and his power is fascinating. And we are so many people are in constant search of power. And power is you know, looking for a one off or looking for a well I got this or right like, even just like neighbor to neighbor like, Well, my lawn. Right. Like there's always this there's a comparison, there's always a better or worse and no one wins in the comparison Olympics. Yeah, we all keep competing. And is that it's disheartening to be a part of, but I know I do it. And I'm not proud of it. But you're right, there's always gonna be something right. I mean, think about it, right? Like, right now. A thickness is celebrated, right? There's a whole thing we got to seize out here with thick, and we don't like like, like, and there's been a rise in in curvaceous, as being very attractive. That hasn't always been the thing. Right. And you're still I mean, I would even say that the world is very split on that as well. Now, I mean, it still might not everybody's 100% on board. And but there's always been like there was this whole period of time where like the wider you could get your skin the better and then it was the darker you get your skin the better and the great. Like, there's there's always gonna be some trend that is reminding other people that they are not enough. Yeah, and there will be people that tell them that

Unknown: 00:22:32

Yep. And like even bring up bodies the the curvy Look, the question is, who is it acceptable on? So and that's a that's a pretty frequent debate, I think in my current industry, and it's, it's, you know, you're damned if you do damned if you do so you might as well just do your damn self.

James Robilotta: 00:22:56

damned if you do, you're damned you don't to do your damn self here. It is just a quote for the episode so far. Let's talk a little bit about that. Because Paige, we've met, we've met a number of years ago, and and it was a friendship quickly formed probably because of sass, and sass and wit. And and I and I appreciate that. And so I knew you when I knew when, but when you work in the education industry, and I'm so grateful that our friendship has continued. And you have made a career switch. Tell me a little bit about when did that start where you were like, you know, education industry, this is nice, but I think there may be something more for me, did you start to look for the more or did the more quite literally fall in your lap or what happened?

Unknown: 00:23:45

The more literally fell in my lap. So, um, look, I I don't think anybody wakes up one day and says, I'm gonna be a sex worker. But shit happens. You roll with the punches. I look, I loved education. I did. I drank the Kool Aid. And I was in it for the long haul. But after I got my master's degree, my first job after graduating offered me 35k. And I had to fight like hard to get 36k was sitting there and I was just like, this doesn't feel right. And, you know, coming from that realm, what one of the things we hear is, you don't do it for the money. You do it to change lives and impact the next generation. And I drank the Kool Aid and I kept with it. And you know, unfortunately, I had to take out a plethora of student loans to make it through college. I got some scholarships, but I wasn't, you know, ridiculously smart to be on a full ride for both undergrad and grad school. And for grad school, some of it was you needed loans just to get by like day to day. Um, so I had about 100k in student loans coming out from those two, two degrees. And so I had that I had to have a car because I had to commute to work. And, you know, it was one of those moments where it was like, do I get a new car, do I get a used car, of course, I wanted a new car, but you know, decisions, whatever it happens, and my I just had all these expenses. And yet, I was still trying to make it day to day. I had done sugaring in college. So being a sugar baby where you date, older gentlemen, typically older gentlemen. And in return, they give you like a monthly allowance, which a lot of sugar babies will say, it's not sex work. But in reality, it is a form, it falls under the umbrella. So I did that in college for a little bit. And then I stepped away from it. And I was like, Oh, I don't need to do this, I'm fine. And then I decided to dive back into it. I was like, Well, let me see what's on seeking arrangement, maybe I'll find somebody. And I did. And so I started dating this older gentleman. And we came to a really good arrangement. And that worked out. At the same time, I had started meeting other sugar babies on Instagram, we had like our own little sub community, like almost no hashtag, necessarily, but you could, but you would find each other just like how you'd find people like on black Twitter, and whatnot. And so, um, I got to talking to this one, this one girl, her name was Nikki at the time. And she was an escort out in LA. Um, and she was like, you know, you should really consider doing this. Like, she's like, I've never seen a, like a. And I really do hate this term because it gets into like classism. But sex work is a microcosm of capitalism in the world at large. But she said, I had never seen a high class like, BB w black sex worker. And I think you could kill the market. And so I considered it 100. It talked to the guy I was dating at the time. And he was like, if you want to do it, like, I don't care, go for it. And he was like, I'll even like, slide you a couple G's to like, get the photos, get the website. And so I started doing it. Um, so I started, be like five years ago. And then I got outed shortly thereafter, and left my job. drove to Minnesota in the middle of the night, got a different job. didn't tell anybody where I went like any except my immediate family, and started working in higher ed again, and then kind of just kept it low key. And I did higher ed for like, another two years. And I realized I didn't like it. Because I was back in that day to day, you know, paycheck to paycheck. You do this because you love the students. And I was like, Yeah, but I don't want to just survive, I want to thrive.

Unknown: 00:28:36

And on top of that, there was no upward mobility because everybody got into the positions they wanted, and nobody wanted to leave. And if I wanted upward mobility, I would have had to move again. And I got tired of moving. And it just started, like, I started noticing all these limitations on that industry. And I was just like, I don't care for this. And the straw that kind of broke the camel's back was, you know, I think higher education does its damnedest to, to open minds and allow people to see other viewpoints, but I think the institutions themselves are still so entrenched in traditionalism, and the donors and what they want, that it's hard for them to move forward when it comes to diversity, equity and inclusion and be proactive instead of reactive. Um, and there was a moment where I was sitting in a meeting. And the President was holding the meeting. And he was basically touting you know, our student of color enrollment for this upcoming freshman class is going to be over 30% amazing, everybody, like applaud, and I raised my hand and I was just like, I'm just curious. Like as of one of six women have On this whole entire campus, staff wise, what are we doing to increase staff of color and faculty of color? Because I don't know if you're aware, but these students are coming to our offices at 8pm at night, or calling us at 10 o'clock at night. Because they need help. They don't feel welcome here. Like you don't have a counselor of color, like, what are we doing? And instead of, instead of answering the question, he placated the audience, which was predominately white. Because he thought that I insinuated that none of them were capable of doing the job, which wasn't what I said at all. And then he had the audacity to say, and if you don't like how we're doing things here, if anyone doesn't like how we're doing things here, you're welcome to leave. And our move, I was I remember going into my boss's office. And I said, he literally threatened me right there, like, threatened my job. And she was like, Yes, yeah, he did. And I knew right then and there, I was done. Like, I was done with the politics, I wasn't made for it. Anyway, I'm too blunt. I don't don't like playing the game. And so I went to corporate America for a little bit, that kind of merged education and whatnot. And about six months in, I was like, I still like this. But I also had my only fans and I was making more money there. And I got tired of it. I got tired of answering to them, too, because they were having the same issues. And after George Floyd, they were really struggling. And I told them what I needed, I was the only woman of color on staff, there was one other person of color, a man of color. Um, we sat down and had a meeting with them. And we're like, this is what we need. This is what we think we should do for the students. This is what we should do proactively moving forward. And it just felt like it was met with like, it just wasn't met. Well, it wasn't received well. And then there were just some personal differences. And I just decided it was time to go. So last year and late November, early December, I left my job and started for my own LLC started my own business. And I've been in the adult industry ever since. super long winded. I'm so sorry.

James Robilotta: 00:32:38

How dare you tell me the story of your life in an inefficient manner.

Unknown: 00:32:45

I really am trying to be efficient and effective. Okay. It's like one of the higher ed things I can't get rid of.

James Robilotta: 00:32:51

And I appreciate it. Fortunately, you are good with your word. So you can use more. And so the, the the first off being an individual tries to stand up for what is right in those moments is always scary, especially as a black woman of color, who is immediately going to get labeled as the angry black woman and whatnot. Right? Like, Oh, here we go. Again. rattling those moments are under No, I mean, I can only imagine how many times you have had that conversation and gotten very similar results. Right. And you told us about two. But yeah, those are definitely not the only two moments that you've had those conversations and so yeah, but you still try. And there's admiration in trying, for sure. But at the same time, but at the same time, like you said earlier, you got to do your damn self. And you made you made an amazing career shift. Now you're your own boss, it's bad ass. And so pain, what is it about sex work that intrigues you? What is it that like, you became your own boss, people don't become their own bosses doing things they hate, right? And so we become our own bosses, because you know, I love speaking and so that's why I wanted to create this own speaker business and that's why I left because it brought me more joy and stuff like that. And so what is it about the work that you get to do that brings you joy.

Unknown: 00:34:23

You know, there's there's a lot of different aspects to it, you know, overarching, I love being my own boss. I love creating my own schedule. I love that feeling of being in charge of um, I know it's really cheesy, I'm just gonna say but being in charge of your destiny

James Robilotta: 00:34:45

is a delicious product.

Unknown: 00:34:50

Goat cheeses not all the cheese goat. But, but like I wake up every morning And I'm like, my success is, while there's outside variables, my success is truly based off of what I do or don't do today. And that is something that I think is so freakin awesome for me because I am someone that's like motivated by that sort of unknown and sort of, if you don't do it, it's never like, it'll never happen. Like, that just works for me. On the flip side of it, I actually enjoy the relationship building a lot, you know, there's a, there's a few aspects of education that kind of boil back into this sex worker industry, in sex work in general. And that is relationship building. You know, I learned how to talk to people in education, I learned how to, you know, this notion of like, how hear people and really listen to what the root of the issue is, and how to solve it. So for me, being really good at that relationship building and seeing people for who they are and getting to know them. That's something that fills me up. Because I would argue I'm an extrovert when it comes to, like, working. But when I'm like, when I'm on my off time, like I'm so I'm such an introvert. Um, and besides that, I think for me, something else that brings me joy is with it is just, it's a, it's a big, like, flipping of the bird to society. And like, the world at large, like this notion, like, we keep telling people to be ashamed of their wheat ashamed of their bodies ashamed of their wants, and their desires. Like we live in such a puritanical society that tries to clamp everything down. And it's so cool to just be like, I want to walk around my house nude and take some photos and jump on the internet and get paid for what's what's the big deal.

Unknown: 00:37:03

Yes, but for me like it, that's what brings me joy. There's just so many different aspects. And you know, there are some days where being my own boss does suck, you know, there are some days where I'm like, shit, man, I wish I had the salary and the benefits instead of me having to handle this all by myself. But that's, it's an ebb and flow, right? Because just like any business, you have really, like it's feast or famine. And when you're feasting, you got to hoard, and it helps make the famine go a little bit easier. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

James Robilotta: 00:37:36

I have a logistics question if you can. And so, you know, as a speaker, as a speaker, I make money by getting speaking gigs, right. And so there are a number of ways to get speaking gigs, you know, there's cold calling, there's sales there is I would go to a conference, people see me speak, and then address and they want me to bring, they then want me to come into their corporation or their campus or whatnot. And so, but by and large, they see the product, they want the product, they want more of the product, right? And so for you, what is client building look like for you?

Unknown: 00:38:14

Yeah, so there's two different sides of it mostly? Well, there's actually there's a lot of different sides. I'm for like, only plans only Yeah, only friends only stands as I like to call it. For that, that's actually really honestly, centered around building a following. So for only only stands, I get a lot of my following from social media. So that's how you build a client. Now, some people are gonna go look at my social media Villa she, she's got 70,000 people on her only friend, like only fans, no, that's not the case, you only expect about 5% of your following at to at some point, you know, shuffle on over to your premium content. But the point is to consistent build that following. And then once you get them through the door, it's providing a dope experience. Um, for me, what I've come to the conclusion, specifically with only fans for me, you know, while I'm posting explicit content, it's the relationship building that keeps people coming back. You know, I know my subscribers, I know the majority of them their first name. I know if the children are not like, I know when their birthdays are, like, you know, they can hit me up and be like, dude, I've had a shitty day. And I'll chat with them through that, you know, it's a pair of social relationship, but it's still a relationship. And the nice part about it is I don't judge because I probably don't even really know you. once in a blue moon. I'll get someone from high school who joins or college and it's a little like, Oh shit.

Unknown: 00:40:01

But normally, I don't know these people. And so we can have kind of these more authentic and genuine conversations. And that keeps them coming back. So that's kind of how you build a clientele. And you just keep building it by expanding on social media via Instagram, Twitter, Reddit, what have you. So there's that in terms of like the escorting side of it. For me, I'm trying to move away from AD platforms, so paid advertising. And I'm really trying to harness on my, like, SEO, so my search engine optimization. So if someone were to ever Google, like Minneapolis, I score, I'd hit the top of the page. and whatnot, because ad platforms are great, because they get your name everywhere. But they're expensive. They're super expensive. And because this industry, specifically, when you look at sex work, that's the umbrella term. And then there's different little sub umbrellas under that. When you look at escorting in particular, that realm is consistently under attack by policies, and, you know, really shitty policies at that. Um, and so as the world as this little industry gets, you know, gets hit from the left flank and the right flank with policy after policy. You know, advertisers are like, we'll just keep charging more, because the the places to advertise are becoming less and less a lot. So I use that. Yes, yeah. Yeah. And then I also social media more so Twitter, then I do Instagram, but I'm also very careful about that as well. Because, you know, it's you just have to be careful about how you use your media, because, you know, our industry isn't necessarily a welcome one. On on all social media platforms. Yeah. So yeah,

James Robilotta: 00:41:59

a lot of good, sorry.

Unknown: 00:42:02

Oh, no. And I was just gonna say like, outside of that, like, keeping clientele. They're just all about providing a good experience. And, you know, I'm sure people are going to assume like, it's all about like sex. And to be honest, it's, it's not. I can, I think a lot of people just want to feel intimacy specifically after this last year, they just want to know what it's like to talk to a human being, and like to hug a human being, like, I sat down with, I had a client the other day for, like, we had lunch. And he just hugged me for like, five minutes. And he was like, this is the first hug I've had in like, six months. I was like, like, That, to me is so like, that's so powerful. And that's so helpful. And it's really healing. So,

James Robilotta: 00:42:56

yeah. Yeah, for sure. Because every time we touch this feeling, right, no, but But seriously, right. Like, I mean, that's the joke that I've been saying throughout all the whole pandemic, when this when this thing's over. I'm hugging all y'all. So buckle up. Proper consent, of course. But still, right, like, I can remember, I went down to Nashville and salt my best friend, Sam. And we hugged it out. And I was like, just feel so nice. Right? Yeah, it was just, it was a beautiful moment. But it was also funny, because I remember being like, where do my hands go? been so long? And, and so but yeah, you bring up such a powerful point where it's also, you know, when you think about when I think about my Barber, right, my Barber, yes, it makes makes my haircut look great. But it's also the time that I spend it right? I'm there for an hour, right? Especially the dude, with the beard trim, you throw in a moustache trim, we're getting into it, you know, saying like, he's in my space. And like, I want to have a cool conversation, right? If you can't have a conversation, or you're bringing curiosity to the room, then I don't know if I'm coming back. Right. And it's, it's and so that's the same thing, right, as you build your book, so to speak, to stick with the haircutting term. It is about what is that relationship that you were able to foster? And you're right, yeah, that is not what most people think about right? When people are like, Oh, you are? Okay, you you're an escort. So that means or you're going to spend two hours with a client, you'll probably talk to them for five minutes. I What do you want? What do you need? How are we doing? Right? It's like, it's almost like people look at it like a mechanic. Right? When I pull them to my mechanic. I'm like, it's making this sound. I want that to stop. I'd like more of this. Maybe some more. Maybe you can check the tires, that'd be great. Right? And you're gone, the interactions done, and then you get to work, but the level of relationships that you formed with these individuals because it is It is intimate and not even intimate in a sexual way. Right? Like, it's that moment of a relationship building that I think is fascinating about the work that you do. Now, you don't go and spend a night in Miami with some random person and not have cool conversations for the entire time. Now is well, we could they have to be both because one feeds the other. For sure. So when you have a crappy waiter that impacts your dining experience, no matter how good the food is. And so yeah, it is. It's really cool to hear about it. And you're right, you're right. The sex work is extremely stigmatized. And and that is, that is a shame that is wrong. And so I want to talk to you a little bit about that stigmatization, is that a word it is now and I want to talk to you a little bit about it. The world is I feel like different parts of the world feel differently about this, but here in the United States, I would consider a lot of our views around sex a little bit prude. Now, right like the you know, see hashtag free the nipple, and some of those things that people are still fighting for. And, and whatnot, there's just the idea of having conversations around sex is very Hush Hush. It's very lights off. It's very, you know, like, whenever you drive by a sex toy store or something like that, you're always like, let me see if I recognize any cars in the parking lot. I'm gonna see if our kids over there. Right. And like, there's still this, this weird, uprightness that is around all of it, that ultimately keeps individuals do sex work from having the rights that they deserve. And so I'm curious to hear, you know, like, when you think about some of that crudeness, and yes, we can, we can tie some of it to religion, but not all of it. Right? I mean, there's, we can always do some we can find a line in religion against everything that we want. And so ultimately, it's how we're interpreting it and playing it and using religion as power. So I'm not I'm not down for that argument. Now, but you know, where are you seeing this? And, and why do you think we are in this place right now? Why is the country in so many parts of the world, you know, on the pruder side, antiquated side, when it comes to sex conversations and sex working?

Unknown: 00:47:34

I mean, I think you hit the primary reason on that, like, when it comes to us, when we look at kind of New Zealand, or Australia, they're ahead of the curve. In this regard, there are states in Australia where sex work is legalized. There, I think New Zealand it's legalized. And then there's other places where it's decriminalized, which is, I think, what a lot of sex workers in the US are looking for. And, and I, I think part of the reason why the US just struggles with it is one we have very antiquated views on sex. I can't necessarily put like, put one thing as to why we have these antiquated views on sex. I don't get why we just can't move the needle. But I think part of it is, you know, there's you have you have a lot of discriminator Um, yeah, basically discriminatory practices happening all over, like, actually today. Um, my mailer, I sent a newsletter out every month and mailer got shut down this morning. Because I was sending it from an email address that pointed back to my website. And even though there was nothing in the email that was adult content oriented, it was just like a, like a post, not post pandemic, but kind of like a slightly post, like wave pandemic. COVID wave what's happening, what I'm fixing to do this summer, I'm on a news and they're like, yeah, we're not cool with your industry, so we're shutting down your account. In addition, I had a bank account or bank, a National Bank, choose not to do business with me. I got a payment from only fans. They saw the payment. They flagged it even though only fans doesn't show up as only fans it shows up as a totally different company. They flagged it and they basically were like we're gonna give you your money, but just FYI, like we could have froze your assets and kept them so in general like we just the industry is discriminated against across the board. credit card processing companies usually charges a more exorbitant fee than other industries to, you know, process credit cards. So I think in general, it's just an industry that's seen as seedy. I think they've done a really good job of presenting the people who work in the industry as being very, like insidious and seedy people. And like, you think about what's kind of portrayed to the public, in movies, in music videos, what have you, like, it just continued? Like, it just continues that cycle. And then on top of that, when you come from, you know, when your education system is consistently harping on, like abstinence, and, you know, we're not having these legitimate conversations about sex and, you know, monogamy versus you know, polyamory versus whatever, like, what different relationships look like. I think it just, it stunts how people view the world. And because it doesn't fit within this traditional box of what things should be, it's wrong. Instead of just realizing, like, there's different ways to live to live life. So me, and I think it'll continue to be stigmatized for a little while longer. I think we're on kind of the path forward specifically with only fans. I think that did a lot over the past year and a half. And I think now that there's, I can't believe I'm saying this out loud, I think because there are men on the platform as well. And we're also engaging in this work, it's also changing. Kind of the dynamic, even though sex worker rights and sex work, decriminalisation, the fight is really being led by black and brown people, specifically black and brown trans people. Um, and it's just kind of interesting to kind of see how the, the table is slightly turning.

James Robilotta: 00:52:05

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. where people are more open to the conversation, people are starting to see it's becoming illuminated, right. I mean, sex is something that is always as I mentioned earlier, like kept in the dark and often done in the dark if you don't like having fun. And so the Yeah, the illumination of the issue. And also the, anytime you can humanize it, right, meeting a person. That's why it was, it was really important for me to have you on here, because let's meet a person who is out here, like a regular human being, it's one thing when you don't know anybody that identifies as such, and such or looks like such and such. It's like, Well, those people, right, instead, it's like, oh, no, that's Paige, she's the shit. Right? Like, and that's different. Right? We start to change the game a little bit. You're like, yeah, yeah, no. And so that is, I mean, first of all, it's amazing that that the conversation is slowly shifting, and needs to happen. The fact that we're having a conversation is progress in itself. And that, that's beautiful. You know, hey, yeah, please.

Unknown: 00:53:16

Oh, please. I was just gonna say, like, people inherently think this work is dangerous. And what they fail to realize is, it's the stigma, like the stigmatization, and the criminalization that makes it dangerous. And a lot of people, you know, don't get me wrong, Human trafficking is real, it is real. But we oftentimes focus on the sex industry, instead of focusing maybe on the labor industry, where it's even more prevalent and rampid. Like, and the a lot of the policies that they're starting to enact, oftentimes make it more difficult. Like I remember, there was an article that came out three years ago, there abouts, after backpage got shut down, there was actually a sheriff's department in Illinois, that was like, we can't find trafficking victims anymore, because you took away that that piece that helped us and it pushed, it pushed the actual, you know, the ugly parts of the sex industry, further underground. And, you know, it made it harder to screen clients, and when you can't screen your clients, you know, you don't you potentially don't know who you're meeting, and I like, I'm in a privileged enough position where I can screen my clients. I know what I'm walking into. But there's some people who can't and, you know, they that's what makes it inherently dangerous because clients who want to do bad things to people, no, the police aren't really going to care. Like the majority of people aren't really going to care. So I can do whatever. And so if that's that The unfortunate part of it and I think, you know, we just have this, we inherently assume everyone who's in the industry is forced. And that's not always the case. And I remember getting into a debate. At my last, the last university I worked at the Super Bowl was in town. And they were having a whole like panel on how to how to gauge like human trafficking. And I was like, okay, but what about our students who are like doing this and volition? And like, they couldn't believe that someone would want to? It's like, no, it's a valid profession. And I have met many a college student who is in this industry, you just want to know it because they blur their face. So, you know, and I just, I wish we would, as educators, I hope this conversation implores, you know, I'm going to implore people to do more work, do more reading, do more research and, and, you know, understand like, this, this world is valid, this work is valid, it's real, and it deserves the same rights as his other labor.

James Robilotta: 00:56:15

Yeah, your carte blanche. Well, it's all wrong. It's dirty. It's nasty is not helping anybody. It's actually hurting. Yeah, I mean, just like, most parents everywhere have learned. If you don't want your kid to drink, then don't tell them not to drink. Right? You don't want your kid? Like, all that kind of stuff is. Yeah, it is. And we, you know, people want what is forbidden. And then the taboo but all and whatnot. And and, you know, I think that's what's so powerful about what's happening right now with the decriminalization and legalization, depending on the state of marijuana, right, like that is that's, that's changing the game. Now. And and so in a really positive way. So, yes, of course, there's always going to be like, well, it could lead to this, or this could happen. And you're right. But those anomalies are so far and few between, right? That's like right now with the people who are like wearing their masks outside still, do you know, you're more likely to get attacked by a shark, or get stung by a bee than you are to attract COVID? Now from somebody just walking past you, right? And like, it's just not the science has said that take your masks off. And so, but there's still some people? It's like, No, you don't now and it's fascinating to hear you talk about it, from that lens of being in being in that work. You're screening clients, what is what does that mean? I understand why it's important. Like, how does like, how does one screen a client? Like what I be curious, what are you listening for? Are there questions that you ask that your like, if their answer, is this to this one? Or is it a you have the ability to pay? And therefore X, Y and Z or like, you know, what is it? Um,

Unknown: 00:58:11

it's, everyone does it differently. And I'm not going to get too too into it. Because there are some aspects of it that we keep in the industry, we keep quiet on it, because that's our way like that. It's a safety precaution. But what I'll say is like, for me, I use real world info. I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm not fixing to give you access to my person, in public or in private without knowing who the hell you are. I get that. Like, or like, that's just what it is. And sometimes I will get people who will be like, well, what's your real name? Why don't you tell me who you really are? And it's like, well, Todd, you're not the one who like if you get out it, I understand. Like, you could totally, potentially lose a partner or your job, there could be repercussions at your work. But last time I checked the you're not a black or brown woman who has a higher chance of being raped, robbed, or murdered on the job. So like, you either give me the info or you don't. Yeah, so yeah, I screen using real world info. And it could range from someone's providing on top of provide answering a bunch of questions, providing like a driver's license, and a photo of them holding the driver's license. It could be employment information, and honestly, like real talk, like it's so funny when people kind of freak out about screening but I also get why I mean, you're you're giving your information to someone you've never met before and you don't know you potentially don't know what they're going to do with it. But real talk, just trying to make sure you are a real human being And like a valid person, and you have like a pretty consistent paper trail, and that you're safe to meet with. That could also be, you know, checking with other providers if you have references from other providers or escorts. So yeah, but screening isn't foolproof either, you know, and that's something else is client a could treat provider A and B well, but client B could treat provider a, like a goddess and client or provider be like, she's just like, some random, I know, that he doesn't give a damn about what happens to them. So, um, and that's just what happens and you know, so screening is, yeah, nothing's foolproof. So it's a good preventative measure. It's it's harm reduction, but it doesn't necessarily mean it'll, it'll always pull through 100% Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

James Robilotta: 01:01:03

It's fascinating to me. So thank you for answering the question. Yeah. You know, one thing we talked about earlier page that I kind of want to bring bring into this conversation is, you know, you are a mixed race. I don't know, if you identify as multiracial or biracial, I'm not sure it let you answer that. Rather than me just sitting you're guessing. But, so, but being a a woman of color, you know, notoriously and I don't know if the industry is changing this way, but notoriously like, especially in porn, like, you would make less money if you had sex with someone of color, or as someone of color, having sex, right, you know, tourists to get paid less. And so there's a disparity and payment there. And there's no there's race comes into everything. And I'm wondering, as you know, where are you seeing that as a model right now, because you're also outspoken on your social media about this issue? And so I'm curious here, you know, where are you noticing? What are you experiencing as a woman of color in the modeling and sex working industry?

Unknown: 01:02:10

Yeah. Um, with only fans. One of the things that is so interesting is, you just notice that the majority of content creators of color, particularly black women, won't charge as much because you just kind of know from the jump, that people probably won't pay as much, because that's just the way the industry works. Like I said, you know, like I said earlier, and like you mentioned, it's, it's a microcosm of the world at large. And typically unchecked, because it's not that nobody wants to pull it out. It's just if you call it out, and you're potentially risking, if you're in porn, you're potentially risking losing out on production companies are gigs if you're, if you're in only fans, you might not get that call, you know, you might not get that subscriber, if you're an escort, you might have just pissed off like, a whole segment of clientele. And the majority of clientele in the industry are white, middle aged men. So it's just, you have to play it really safe, to some extent. And if you don't recognize you're, you're cutting yourself off from a large potential large segment of clientele. But the clientele you do get the subscribers you do get our hell of air for you and dig you so that that part's cool. Um, I will say when it comes to the escorting realm, you'd notice it in rates. I'm, like, I will notice particularly that white women specifically, conventionally attractive, so thin, white blond, white women can charge astronomically more than their black peers. Now, while there are of course exceptions to every rule, because I have seen thin black providers, charging $1,000 for the first hour or 15 $100 for the first hour. It happens it just doesn't you just don't see it as frequently. But I also have another kind of like, slight against me because I'm considered plus size or small BB w which that has always thrown me off. I was like, isn't BB w just BB w but now I've learned like they're small BB W and they're super like super BB w I'm just like, this is

James Robilotta: 01:04:33

Barbie w being big black woman. For those of you playing at home. We don't know the term. No big beautiful woman. big beautiful woman. Excuse me. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, you're welcome. And we all learn about here.

Unknown: 01:04:47

Well, it's fine. Like there was a there's a really well known content creator who thought BB w was meant big, big black woman and we were like, No girl. Thank you, but thank you anyway. Perfect send a promo ourselves under this tweet,

James Robilotta: 01:05:04

freebies BBB.

Unknown: 01:05:09

But yeah, and so for me, like, I'm supposed to charge even less, because I'm bigger. But I don't, you know, like I am in Minneapolis, there's not a lot of plus size providers here. In addition, there's not like, there's not a lot of plus size providers who are women of color. So it's a niche market. And so when you're, when you're kind of like, one of the only, you, you, there's some ability there too, set a price point that's just a little bit higher, because you're fulfilling a niche that isn't really being fulfilled there. But I would be considered an anomaly to some people as well. So it just, it all really depends. There's so many different variables that go into it. And at the end of the day, like when it comes to pricing, I just always tell people, you have to price yourself at something that you're comfortable with, but that will also make you money. So yeah. And there's some markets, like where you wouldn't see anyone whose price over 350 because the markets just that, like a the markets just that small. And the way clients have kind of set the demand. They they've been able to keep the prices that low.

James Robilotta: 01:06:28

So yeah, yeah. Fascinating, like carrying gas prices around the country.

Unknown: 01:06:35

I love the inner workings of this industry. Like it's so fascinating. And you're constantly learning because the industry has to constantly evolve.

James Robilotta: 01:06:46

Yeah, yeah. Well, a question I have. Another question I have for you is kind of actually along those lines. What have you learned about yourself doing this work? Um,

Unknown: 01:07:00

I have learned that my tolerance and patience for bullshit is nil. Um, no, I mean, what I mean by that is, I've learned that I'm much more, um, Oh, God, I can't think of the word. It's not independent. Although I am independent, and it's not resilient, it's assertive than I always thought I was. You have to have really good boundaries in this industry. Whether it's, whether it's escorting, whether it's only fans, whatever it is, you have to have really good boundaries, and you have to be able to stick to your guns regarding those boundaries. And that is something I've learned is how to be able to look at someone and just be like, no, and not feel bad for it. Um, so I really have appreciated that about myself. And it's something I wish I had learned God during college, that I would have been a lot of different decisions about what I decided to do in college and whatnot. Um, I think

James Robilotta: 01:08:04

Where was your guidance counselor on this one,

Unknown: 01:08:08

definitely not available. Um, my dad likes to when he was alive, my dad like to joke that I had a guardian angel, because I'd never had like, never dealt with any bad shit. And if I did, like, I get out of it real quick. Um, I think mine was just kicking it in Maui with my ties the whole time. So I don't I don't blame them. I was doing the most all the time. Um, but yeah, so a lot of assertiveness setting boundaries. I've definitely learned how to run and operate a business. Like, which is so cool. Like, I used to be like, how do you how does someone run a business? And it's like, like, I can sit here and I know, okay, this is what I got to call and talk to my tax guy about or this is what I need to call and talk to my financial advisor about like, it's just like, that is so bad asked to me. Um, I have learned how to be a chameleon. You know, I think as a as a, as a multiracial woman of color. I already was a chameleon, but this has taught me how to be myself at the fundamental level, but also code switch or shift even better, depending on what somebody needs at the time. Whether it's tough love, or listening here or whatever, and because I'm not afraid to give clients some tough love, I'm just Yeah, seriously. Sometimes, um, and then some other things that I've learned is camaraderie. I have a tendency to kind of lone wolf it. And I think part of that is growing up where I grew up. I think part That is having moved so much for college and, and work in whatnot after a while you just get so used to having to make new friends. And it's just like, what's the point. And so this has kind of taught me how to let the walls down, selectively, but let the walls down and let people get to know me. Um, but again, selectively and I think that's super important because, you know, we we need friends, we need people who understand us and people who empathize what we're going through. But the other thing that I've learned, like the one thing in general is just on it being unabashedly and unapologetically honest. blings No, my mother knows, like, and I remember one of the first things they all said was, are you being safe? Yes. Are you happy? Yes. Okay. Then we support you. And I think for me, like that ability to finally just be honest about what it is I do and who I am. You know, I don't go around telling everybody like, if you see me at the airport, I'll be like, I'm a consultant. Okay, just a consultant. Because I do I do, I do consulting for some people when it comes to only fans and whatnot. But yeah, just being honest. And being able to be unapologetic with with my family and friends about who I am, is has been a really great lesson.

James Robilotta: 01:11:35

That's beautiful. That That's dope. You know, I mean, you're an entrepreneur, right? You are a business owner. Sorry, world, I don't know what else you're trying to call what she does. But you're entrepreneur, you're a business owner, and as a fellow entrepreneur, right, we don't have a water cooler, that we can go and chop it up with a co worker at real quick, right? Like, we have to collaborate, the amount of conversations I have with other with fellow speakers, has been extremely helpful. And so those conversations are powerful. And, you know, it says a lot to play, play your cards face up like you are like you have with your family and your closest friends and whatnot. And that's, that's amazing that, you know, they support you right, they asked a really powerful question. The question that all loved ones should ask, really, regardless of what you do for work, are you being safe? Are you taking care of yourself? Now? And yeah, that's incredible. I got one more for you. I asked you about you know, what of this industry and being a part of it being a businesswoman? What is it taught you about yourself? And I'm wondering what it has taught you about others, because a lot of times because of movies, because of whatever experiences people have had, when we think about somebody who is going to, I guess, utilize the business of a sex worker. That was said perfectly. patronage to a sex worker, and whatnot, there's often an archetype right? Like, I'm thinking about the sleazy dude from hitch and like the weird boss guy hooked up with a friend, right? And then she winds up a tremendous pushes him into the bolts. But anyway, we all know the moment but like, we're big picture like dude like that three piece suit hair slick all the way back douchebag type right now. You talked about forming relationships earlier, you talked about having open open lines of dialogue with folks. And so I'm wondering what have others or not let me ask you this way, what have you learned from others, those that you've worked with? That is maybe cause you to think a little bit differently or something that surprised you?

Unknown: 01:13:46

Yeah, I think I think other people, particularly clients have just taught me the value and the importance of feeling empowered in your relationships, and being able to advocate for yourself and your wants and your needs. And, you know, communicating that, with whomever it is, I think so often, we feel this need to constantly sacrifice our own happiness for other people, and I think I think that's valid to some extent, and I think it's, it's fair in a lot of situations, but at the same time, like, we have to make sure that we're happy where we're at. And we have to make sure that you know, we feel empowered where we're at, and for me, I just, that's what I've mostly learned is the the the need and the There were really the requirement that it relationship should have, which is communicate openly and honestly. In addition, outside of like that super important lesson, like, the beautiful thing about my clients is they come from different walks of life. You know, I've learned a lot about fire investing, which is financial independence, retire early, like a lot, like, I have a client who literally will, like, text me and be like, Yo, this one's on the up and up, like, he get it now before, you know, it shoots way up. And he's been right, like, every single time. Like, he's just really, really good. Um, and, you know, I have, like, clients who will keep me abreast of like, really hot topic issues that I'm not really paying attention to, because I'm, like, super focused on domestic issues, and how that's impacting, you know, how things are happening over here. And so, all of us come from these really unique walks of life. And so I'm learning things that are applicable kind of to success is as a business person and as an individual, but I'm also learning, you know, skills from them that are successful to build good relationships. And, and I can take that into other aspects of my business.

James Robilotta: 01:16:27

Hmm, yes. Fascinating. Cuz again, you're having normal, you're having normal everyday conversations with these folks. Right? And people are fascinating, right? There we are all there is, there is a topic that gets us all going now and who knows what it is, right? You want to talk about marine biology, amen. You want to talk about photography, amen. You want to talk to you about cars, you want to buy that I'm super excited me life in general, I'm fascinated by right now. But there's other topics where I'm like, aren't I gotta, I gotta double down, I gotta try to stay present here. Now, right. And so like, but finding what other people care about is always such a cool challenge. And I also loved what you shared about the need for clarity. And the need to recognizing that you are allowed to want something you are allowed to ask for something. And and that's something that, you know, I was recently able to go on a show Twin Cities Live. I know, you know it now, but I was on Twin Cities Live and talking about the tips that a lot of marriages, you know, what are three tips that marriages need to get a little bit stronger. And one of the biggest things was, you need to ask for what you want, you need to have clarity. And if you sometimes it takes a lot of courage. And so also on the other side of the partnership, it also is important for the other person to be like, you know, it'd be really hard. I don't know if I would just immediately stand up for myself and tell somebody what I want. So let me ask, right, like, how can I navigate? What do you need from me right now? How are you feeling about this relationship? Right, like, trying to find clarity is key. And so that's cool. That that was a lesson that you took away from, from this experience that you are in the thick of as a badass businesswoman. I love that page. So don't hang out with you here in the diner. It is it is great to spend this time with you and thank you so much for for teaching me things right. I love I love what I get corrected in these in these in these movies. Right? It's It's awesome. It's so good right now I'm now I'm closer to being better now. And so I really appreciate that for sure. And thank you for being so open with us about something that people sadly don't want to talk a lot about, then about a profession that deserves way more rights than it currently has. I appreciate you friend.

Paige Savage: 01:18:53

Yeah, no problem. I mean, it's like cliche higher ed line, we're all only experts in our own experience. And so, you know, I always encourage people like my experiences, my own, how I view the industry, how I view the world is obviously through my own vantage point. So, you know, for anybody who's listening, I would just encourage you to like, reach out to your local sex worker, organization group. Try to get more info, try to just under understand, try to learn because at the end of the day, as a certain mentor, please tell me We're all individual sacred human beings trying to make it right.

James Robilotta: 01:19:39

damned if you do, you're damned if you don't, so take care your damn self. There it is. I love that. And I think most listeners just learned that there was a local sex worker organization potentially in their town. I know. So Well, there's an organization for everything. So I don't know The Wire surprised

Unknown: 01:20:01

so just a Google like swap USA SW op dash USA and usually that website will have links to potential city wide swap organizations. Yes What

James Robilotta: 01:20:19

s w o p thank you for that resource and thank you for being my friend Paige. I always love our conversations. You're a dope human and and much loved you fam. Thanks for chilling in the diner with me.

Paige Savage: 01:20:34

Thank you for having me.